Forum:New Champion Abilities Table
Hello everyone. ProtonZero has recently been working on a new champion abilities table. Per the discussion we had, does the community support implementing this new look for the champion abilities tables? Please explain any adjustments you'd like to be done as well. 21:16,4/2/2012 Add the new Abilities Table Support # It looks incredible. 21:16,4/2/2012 # I like this new format! I actually recognize it because I've been looking at the Dota 2 Wiki. At first I found it a little confusing, but it's a lot more detailed than the old table and it didn't take long for me to understand. 22:15, April 2, 2012 (UTC) # Putting in a vote for myself for the record :3. 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) # the notes' position/color make the table look cut-off, and the fractional part of cooldowns being subscripted looks a bit awkward. I like the Ability Type / Targeting Type / Allowed Targets fields. There should be a field for range, either like those or like the cooldown/cost ones. #: The small-text fractions are actually part of the template I made and am slowly proliferating, so the small-text fractions can easily be changed throughout the entire wiki (yay templates). As far as range goes, I suppose that could be implemented in a more permanent matter. It might fit up in the header, but for abilities whose range increases with level it would be nasty. Because cooldown and mana both often have scaling values, it probably wouldn't fit well there either, meaning it would have to take up its own line... which it is already doing. If you have any other suggestions I'd be more than happy to accommodate. 17:47, April 4, 2012 (UTC) # Looks good. No reason we can't reuse ideas from elsewhere on Wikiland. 02:20, April 7, 2012 (UTC) Neutral # Personally, I don't like the top section which reads "Ability Type - Targeting Type - Allowed Targets" I think that should continue to be noted or inferred in the description. I also don't like the Notes section making the table look cut-off or displaced. Further notes I would make are that Range, Damage, etc shouldn't be in ALL CAPS the Q,W,E,R doesn't need the "hotkey" mouse-over note and the ability power ratio shouldn't be shown as a percentage. I do like the color scheme and the layout of the table with the cost and cooldown icons 23:08, April 2, 2012 (UTC). Oppose # - Although the idea for the layout seems good, the actual implementation seems a bit clunky to me. Important information such as the stats seem to be thrown in as an afterthought. The varying font sizes and weights make it look messy. I like the use of icons but if they will be implemented I think they should be used for all the statistics (range, damage, etc.). Never really liked the colored backgrounds on the current ability pages, these have many more. Seeing as the rest of the wiki just uses the default, I don't see why ability pages should have color schemes. "Ability Type, Targeting Type, Allowed Targets" doesn't really serve a purpose, IMO. --Lord Kuato 01:22, April 3, 2012 (UTC) # - Don't take templates from other Wiki's. Looks unprofessional. LionsLight 10:33, April 3, 2012 (UTC) #: Get original icons which are not taken from other wiki's, and restyle the template so that it's not a recognisable lift and I might switch my vote. LionsLight 10:44, April 3, 2012 (UTC) #:: I didn't construct the idea, I am simply proposing we use it. On the other hand, the template was not copied 100% and I don't see any issue with the icons. 18:07, April 3, 2012 (UTC) #:: The icons were not taken from the wiki, but Dota 2 itself (and even then, they weren't just copied, I personally made the SVG files and rendered the high-quality bitmaps now used on the Dota 2 wiki). I'm not going to use something that's not as good just for the sake of originality. I didn't just copy-paste the template, I looked at each individual element and edited it as necessary to better fit this wiki. But I digress; I made these templates for fun because I thought they looked better, I wasn't originally intending on actually trying to persuade anyone to use them. 20:52, April 3, 2012 (UTC) ## I understand that you weren't planning to use them for this Wiki, but as Tech has already brought up the issue, I'm working on the assumption that this is going to be used. ## Changing a few lines of code does not an original work make. You are missing the point if you think the issue can be averted by paraphrasing a few things. Even if the person who made the template is going to be okay with this, do you really want leagueoflegends.wikia to be known as a wiki that lifts templates? As for the images, regardless of who extracted the files, it's still being used on dota2wiki.com and that won't change. LionsLight 06:00, April 4, 2012 (UTC) ### Not much point in re-inventing the wheel; if a design is good, it's good. The purpose of these pages are to educate and serve as a reference, there is no need for duplication of effort just so that LoL Wikia can be a snowflake. Interceptor402 19:13, April 5, 2012 (UTC) # Strong oppose, reasons stated below, theme clashes hard with those of other boxes. 18:48, April 12, 2012 (UTC) # We shouldn't been copying Dota 2 wki's format # Going to have to agree with Teh. It just doesn't fit with the rest of the templates on the page and it's hard on people who don't know the system of the icons. 19:44, April 12, 2012 (UTC) Discussion The "Ability Type - Targeting Type - Allowed Targets" header provides clear ability categorization; it makes it quick and easy to find how to use the ability, including particulars of how it works (for example, you wouldn't have to explicitly note that doesn't work on minions, because it clearly says it only affects enemy champions instead of enemy units). 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) The Notes section is designed to take up as little space as possible (whether empty or filled) while still being legible and easy to find. The abilities are not intended to be a "table," just independent blocks that happen to line up. See the Dota 2 Wiki for the original appearance. 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) The all-caps display of the ability values (range, damage, etc.) can certainly be debated. It originally was just a carryover from the Dota 2 in-game descriptions, but it could be argued that, since the numerical values are the same relative size as all-caps words, it helps keep the text feeling homogeneous. In any case, the all-caps feature is built into the template, and can easily be disabled without having to manually change the text in each ability (you can check the source of the page to see that the words are passed into the template in Sentence Case). 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) The QWER doesn't really need the tooltip, yeah. Just didn't see any reason to remove it at the time. I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) I personally feel that percentages appear much cleaner and nicer than decimal "x'' per ''y" notations. (This may or may not have been inspired by Diablo 3 skill descriptions.) This can certainly be debated. 00:04, April 3, 2012 (UTC) Just in case it wasn't obvious, the squares are yellow in Shen's example since he uses energy, which is yellow rather than blue. I also want to say that the colors used for the ultimate and passive blocks could be alternated a little as I personally don't find them appealing. 00:25,4/3/2012 *Explanations: I felt the grey was appropriate for the passive because it represents neutrality, something staying in the background, as opposed to an exciting color that would better represent action and activation. The goldish color was selected because yellow is an appropriate color for an ultimate ability (bright, powerful, exciting), but in an effort to protect the reader's eyes the saturation needed to be toned down, resulting in the icky halfway thing currently implemented. I'm up for other suggestions on that front, but I would like to stick with the grey for passives. 00:47, April 3, 2012 (UTC) **I guess the grey seems appropriate then. I was thinking about the current color used for the ultimate on the current champion abilities table (light blue). If not, then I would like to see a brighter gold such as this. But these are merely my suggestions that I hope are taken into consideration. 00:59,4/3/2012 ***I've edited the template to use the normal blue background but added in a brighter yellow border (still a little toned down from your sample color). Let me know what you think. 01:22, April 3, 2012 (UTC) ****Actually it looked better before :S You probably have a better taste in colors than I do. 01:27,4/3/2012 I personally don't like the notes to the side, it just looks odd to me (especially for more complex spells where it could overflow), would rather them underneath like they are now and the note section stretched to the end. Another thing is, if possible, I would like a small border around each ability, just something to make it "pop" more. 01:42, April 3, 2012 (UTC) Tech, you can't open up a discussion like this with opinions. Present the issue at face value and then throw your opinion in your support vote, not in the introduction. 01:42, April 3, 2012 (UTC) *But...it's more persuasive D: Ok, you're right. Should I edit out my opinions and put them in my vote then? 01:46,4/3/2012 **Yep, using opinionated terms like "awesome" and "incredible" should stay in your vote. Open the discussion with either facts or just present the idea neutrally. 01:49, April 3, 2012 (UTC) Using tiny icons for things like cooldown and cost is cool, but if you're someone quickly checking the page during loading/walking back to lane, you won't immediately recognize the yellow thing as being energy cost. I suggest having both the mouseover "Energy" and the word "energy" for cost. Also, general aesthetics wise, the difference between the C-top, champion infobox, and c-bot template format (white border, boxes) is unappealing. 02:09, April 3, 2012 (UTC) Vote is now a 5-5 split, community is currently showing an approximate 110-67 (~62%) disapproval (38% approval) of the new table. What I am trying to show is that it is not just me that dislikes the new template. 14:13, April 13, 2012 (UTC) * 590-1290 support/oppose, respectively. (31.5% to 68.5%) 01:17, April 20, 2012 (UTC) * As of edit, 30.3% approval (1056-2428) of the templates on and 's pages. No consensus here. Are we planning to revert the tables any time soon? LionsLight 18:39, April 28, 2012 (UTC) I have a few issues with the new template. First, it does not fit with the rest of the page's layout. The notes section font, while legible, is too small. And the way it cuts off is just wasting space. Considering we have a lot of notes to add to some abilities for champions' AD pages, this doesn't fit to our purposes. And adding notes to the main page would be too much for the space it can occupy. My second issue is the coding for the template. It's needlessly complicated IMO. Particularly when creating new traits/value for each new line of information and choosing scaling colors (AP, AD, Health, etc.). --Sydeyc 21:20, April 13, 2012 (UTC) Barely relevant, but here's where I think people will see it: an article on . There are screenshots of the ability/its description. These are not screenshots from the game, but from the nice clean and concise ability description. There is a picture, a name, and a clear description. The new box is not as clean and concise That is all. 02:13, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :Ftr User:TehAnonymous/Poll 01:13, June 10, 2012 (UTC) Closing *All editors who have yet to partake in this discussion, please do so immediately. The discussion will be closed tomorrow. 03:38, April 10, 2012 (UTC)